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UK Road Sense, Dorset Way / A3049 50 limit






Here are some of the messages I've received about the Speed on green at Holes Bay. If you would like to add your comments, please email (link above)

These are a sample of comments received 20th July - 24th Sept 2010:

I have been driving for 27 yrs with a clean license....got caught at Holes bay Rd....if they are catching so many speeders then they need to rethink how they control the masses ....they should simply install speed activated traffic lights that turn red if you speed. This is a tried and tested method adopted in Europe.  They now have ample amounts of money to  implement this. regards £60 lighter.

I am a retired Fire-fighter and in my time spent serving the community have seen and attended many fatalities from Road Traffic Accidents, so I am fully qualified to comment on the appropriate positioning of a so called "Safety Camera". Travelling down the Holes Bay Relief Road recently my vehicle was photographed travelling over the "so called acceptable" speed limit through a green light. I have now been driving for 25 years without causing an accident or an injury to any third party. I drive with due care and attention and drive at safe speeds wherever I go for prevailing road conditions. Whilst serving for Dorset Fire Service I was an EFAD (Emergency Fire Advanced Driver) qualified to drive fire engines so I am aware of the potential risks with respect to driving at speed. In my 25 years of driving I have not ever been caught by a speed camera so I was extremely disappointed to be snapped by what can only be described as a money making camera for the authority. I am disgusted that a camera can be positioned in such an inappropriate position and catch everyday people going about their everyday business. We aren't talking about inexperienced speeding drivers here, not drunk drivers, not drivers under the influence of drugs, just normal people that get up everyday go to work and pay their taxes !

Being a relatively infrequent visitor to my parents in Poole, I was shocked and surprised to receive a speeding fine for travelling at 41mph through the Holes Bay Road/Sterte Road junction. I have been driving for 40 years and I have never seen a more ill-conceived speed restriction in my life.
 

I have just come across your web site having received in the post this morning a Notice of Intended Prosecution for passing through the Holes Bay Rd / Sterte Road (speed on green) camera at 43mph. I am hugely, hugely annoyed at this legalised form of injustice sponsored by Dorset Police. I have possessed a clean driving licence for over eighteen years and have been totally accident free for over twenty five years.  Having only googled this subject for no more than half an hour this evening I cannot believe that this speed on green camera will be allowed to continue for much longer. Its sole function is as a cash cow preying on the innocent and uniformed - pure and simple. 

 

Visiting Poole for the first time 20th August 2010, It was a shock when a week later back in Staffordshire I received a speeding ticket (40 mph), I had to look up on the search engines how I had managed to get this, as I have never even had a parking ticket in over 30 years of driving never mind a speeding ticket, having seen how much debate this site has generated, I like so many others feel very angry, that it is a money maker. I had no idea that the speed limit had dropped to 30 so quickly,  I totally support all the efforts to get this changed. like many visitors to Poole caught out by this camera we wont be back in a hurry to spend our leisure pounds, how much is that costing the local economy? good luck with the campaign I will be following it closely.

Hi I am totally shocked at reading your web site, I have just received an NIP in the mail today for driving through this set of traffic lights on green, over the speed limit, it states on the letter that I was driving at 40, I do not know this area very well and was heading to the ferry port, I have been a proffesional driver for many years and was a driver in the Army for 10 year driving all over the world. I am a law abiding driver and have had my clean licence since 1987. I am so upset with this letter that I have received, and now I have read on line all about how this is just a money spinner and not an accident black spot. I now face the possobility of a fine and points for driving to fast on a Duel Carriage way, its a total JOKE!

I have received my first speeding notice of prosecution on the Holes Bay Road "speed on green" camera after 25+years of driving.  We were utterly shocked when we looked up the location of the camera and realised that the offence was for driving over 30mph on a dual carriageway.  I see that there have been thousands of drivers caught out in this way in the few months since this camera was installed, many of whom are sensible drivers who would not intentionally break the limit, and I think this demonstrates not only that the speed limit on that stretch of road is absurd and out-of-kilter with the norm, but also that the signage is clearly not effective enough.  We have since driven down the road again to have another look, and saw a large number of 50mph speed restriction signs, some of which were mounted on bright yellow backgrounds, yet when we reached the 30mph sign it was just a regular sign and easily missed.

When I got my ticket in December last year, I Had a moan at my nephew who is a Sergeant class one Police driver in Cambridgeshire- needless to say I got no sympathy! I explained the fact there had been only one accident in 1999 but he insisted there must be a serious risk of accidents for the authorities to place a camera there. Even after I went to great lengths to describe the the road layout, the fact that it is a very wide junction with unrestricted vision al around - the position of the traffic light above the junction which draws you through the junction when the road is clear and the light is on green - still no sympathy ! He and his family came to stay with me last weekend-so I took him out to the holes bay road as he wanted to visit PC World.  On our way back, he was driving, as we approached the traffic lights at Sterte road, the road ahead was completely clear he was slowing down and the lights were on green , I was watching his speedometer and he was just below 40 mp. and we would have continued through the junction at that speed, but I had to warn him, he braked, and we got through hopefully "without a ticket". He now sympathizes with my feelings about this camera.

Strange thing is I wasn’t driving dangerously, the conditions were dry and it was at a time and on a day when there was next to no one around and of course not forgetting that it’s a dual carriageway and certainly not a built up area, which incidentally the guidance note sent with my NIP tells me where I ought to expect a 30mph limit? So yes enjoy my discomfort and my money whoever you are and please allow yourselves the fantasy that you are realistically dealing with road safety and making a worthwhile contribution to reducing fatal injuries at this most dangerous of junctions.

Dear Ian, your website is great and very informative. Have just been caught 39 mph at junction of holes bay and sterte - cannot believe it really as years ago had 6 points all questionable but hey enough to increase road awarness and be ever more mindful. I've never caused an accident but been hit 7 times so very aware and cannot believe I have been so silly....or so I thought. I can only say that I thought 50 was the limit and so there must be some visual 'clues' that cause this confusion I have read that there are clear 30 mph signs but I dont recall seeing them - the road is so wide ? perhaps my mind took no notice of the signs which is odd. Anyway I have read your info with interest and am really surprised that revenue makers are allowed to exist. Can you suggest whom I write to to complain about this rather mindless trap.

Hello Ian am a 46 year old HGV owner driver just been done by the infamous holesbay camera.I was caught at 40mph but thought the limit was 40? Can i do anything to get off with this crazy fine ?

Mr Garrett indicated that some 9700 had exceeded the 30mph speed – although not exceeded 50mph as I requested. This is an enormous number; I cannot believe all these people are maniacs. Anyway I will continue the crusade and I hope you are successful

I was trapped doing 43mph at 6.20am on my way to the Poole ferry in May. I was not a danger to anyone because no one was about

 

These are a sample of comments received 30th June - 20th July 2010:

"if they really want people to drive at 30 down there, put more signs up, and maybe average speed cameras for the whole section- at least you know where you stand then..."

"I drove at exactly the speed limit today and it felt very very slow for the type of road"

"I read with relief the article in the Dorset Echo regarding the Holes Bay Rd camera. Thank goodness there are others who feel a crime has been committed against them by this camera."

"My training was that a vehicle should always be driven so that in an emergency you have the option of braking or accelerating. Braking sharply when a light is clear green and there are vehicles right behind you is a recipe for being shunted in the rear"

"The positioning of the camera gives the impression that it is to catch anyone 'jumping the lights' not to enforce the ridiculous speed limit there."

"I strongly support your action against this speed camera. I have had a clean licence for 40 years. I have been attending the Poole bike meet for the past 3 years. I have just received 2 notices of speeding 29th June and 6th July doing 40 mph both times at this stretch of road. "

"First of all, high five for all your work on the speed cameras, it’s good to see some support on this issue!"

"Thank God, at last, someone is attempting to bring the injustice of this camera location to the wider public. I have lived in Poole for the past 15 years and have travelled along the holes bay road many, many  times and I have never seen an accident on this stretch of road or any related incident"
"WELL DONE for highlighting this! My 19 year old son has just been caught - not what he needs what with the cost of insurance for his age group. Let's hope people power can get a result."

"After driving with no NIPs for nearly 30 years I was appalled to receive a NIP for doing 37 mph at this particular junction. I was driving with the road conditions and visibility in mind as I always do. I did not complain or ask for proof (I am the only driver of the vehicle) and paid the fine but was surprised and angered subsequently to find this was not an accident ‘black spot’ and feel that this camera has not been placed there to deal with any safety issues"

"I saw the article about you in the Bournemouth Echo last night, and totally agree with you about the speed camera on Holes Bay Road, there is no need for the juction to suddenly drop to 30 mph from 50 mph; it is ridiculous! I got caught there in December last year, while travelling home from my in-laws the weekend before Christmas on a Sunday night, and I had the fine within 3 or 4 days, just before Christmas, so it made me feel great!!  "

"This is my first speeding fine for 40 years, I still have one of the original green paper licences (Nov 77 to May 21).  I feel I was driving safely and can confirm that there was little traffic, certainly not the pedestrians and cyclists cited to justify the location of this camera. It is difficult to feel respect for a justice system which "criminalises" people like myself in order to earn revenue."

"It is so easy to get caught out. We drive regularly for 30 odd miles on surrounding routes at 50 mph to a point where the speed limit suddenly drops to 30 mph on a dual carriageway and is policed at that very point by a speed camera. Please get rid of this evil thing. It has nothing to do with road safety."

"I am angry about it because I am constantly being passed on dual carriageways by vehicles being driven in excess of 80mph and on single lane roads, showing speed limits of between 40 and 50mph, in excess of 60mph. That camera is just a machine for generating cash and is NOT to do with safety."

"Just reading your website, and I would like to say, great stuff, I am a local Poole resident, not that far from Sterte, or the Business Park."

"If money was spent on measures that reduced the number of tickets issued per week, like rumble strips or whatever, we might be more convinced that they had our safety interests at heart and not their revenue raising intetrests."

"Essentially the purpose of this email to encourage you to keep up all the good work, as fighting this level of bureaucratic persecution of drivers must be frustrating to say the least."

"If ever I saw a camera situated for revenue collection and not safety this is it!"

"I'm impressed - won't be a problem for me as I always stick to the speed limit come what may (yeh right). Up here we'd have firebombed the contraption by now."

"I totally agree that the camera at the Holes Bay lights (Speed on Green) must go. It is a synical money making trap that has no material effect on road safety."

"Well done. Keep up the Superb work."

"Hi Ian i just wanted to congratulate you on all the good work you have done so far. Some one needs to stand up to this GREED on speed !! You have my full support"

"I believe that it is unfair to penalise law abiding motorists in this way especially when the statistics suggest that revenue raising rather than road safety is the main issue." /font>

"When I received the NIP through I was in shock as we hadn’t realized that the limit had changed and couldn’t believe that a Dual Carriageway would be that low, especially with the low level of pedestrian use in that area"

"It's great to see that our fine council is choosing it's speed camera locations so wisely and I only hope that our "representatives" make good use of their rapidly expanding slush fund."

"I have never had any speeding or other offence on my licence in the whole time the I have been driving, (about 35 years), until about three months ago, when I was done by this camera, and again about a month later. 6 points. I am now aware that I am not alone about being very concerned about this....the camera is wrong...and the reason for its existance is wrong"

"I’m off to my Driver Awareness Course this week. I will have to behave myself. My blood boils every time I think of this."

"If this was all about safety rather than revenue, there would be an advance warning of the reduced speed limit on this busy road and regular size signs from the beginning of the 30mph zone."

These comments were received before the 30th June, 2010

"This seems to be a totally unnecessary camera monitoring location. According to DSCP's reporting to 2008, there have been no fatal or serious accidents and 9 minor accidents at this junction in 11 years, with no change in the frequency of accidents before and after the red light camera was established in 2002. In addtion, using some useful map websites, the camera is positioned 164 yards after the change from 50 to 30mph. This seems very close. Even at 30mph this will take you jjust 11 seconds."/span>

"No one in their right mind would expect the multi-lane road around Holes Bay to have a 30mph limit and are therefore prey to the "scameras". The council must be making a fortune here - and I have to say, I'm disappointed as I thought Dorset had a more sensible approach to speed limits than most."

"Therefore, I can only draw the conclusion that the council isn't making sufficient money out of law abiding citizens like ourselves, so they need to bolster their coffers by theft"


"Myself, my father in law and my brother in law were all "caught speeding" by this speed on green on the same day at differing times within a 10 minute period 2 weeks ago and we have all received NIP's. God knows how many others were "caught". There was hardly any traffic about and the lights were on green so we all obviously drove happily along oblivious to the hidden camera....."

"There is no way on earth that it should be a 30 zone - how they can justify it i'll never know...... it can have absolutely nothing to do with road safety at that junction."

"I then started to think more about it and I began to question why as a middle-aged law abiding citizen, I am employed in a large UK blue chip company, I am happily married with two kids, I have no loans,   I pay my taxes, I save for my retirement  etc. etc. In addition I have been driving for 40 years, I was brought up in family where roadcraft was high on the agenda and both my parents were members of the Institute of Advanced Motorists (I AM). Prior to my first camera ticket I had been driving safely for 30 years. So why on a sunny afternoon in May am I being criminalised for driving safely and being of no threat to the community?"

"It soon became clear that this camera placement has caused significant reaction from the public and therefore is hugely controversial. Your link to the Daily Echo article and the associated discussion is very revealing and had not the Daily Echo closed the discussion I suspect there would now be thousands of hits. It is thus no surprise that the general view is that the whole A 350 Sterte Road set up, consciously or unconsciously, has been set up to entrap motorists who are not “petrol heads” “bikers” or “boy racers” but ordinary safe members of the public"

"This is just to inform you that I have been caught speeding at Holes Bay Road, Poole and I am fuming about it. For several years now, I have been driving along that road without any problem and suddenly, they have started to use the Camera to catch people who are speeding at the traffic light instead of catching people who jump the Traffic light. The speed of 30 miles per hour along that road is stupid and very difficult to enforce. I believe that this is only done in order to raise cash and not for safety reason."

"I may even get another two more tickets coming as I drove past that road on three occasions. To suddenly be given three fines and 9 points on my licence when I am a hard working and law abiding member of the community, it does not sound fair to me."

"I just wanted to let you know I'm in support of the aims of DorsetSpeed.org.uk, Although I haven't had a ticket myself, my wife got one on the holes bay 'speed on green' which brought this to my attention and does appear to be a completely unjustified operation on the part of the DSCP, especially considering the surrounding area's crossings and rrroad layouts."


"I will be sending my fine back today attached with a letter of my strong views of this disgraceful money making activity.  Hopefully something will be done so that future driver's aren't stung, and that real crimes are focused upon, then maybe one day I may return to Dorset."

"It really is a silly speed limit they say its for safety ? WHO'S ?? I have no other conviction ever iin the past 6 years of driving."

"To add to your statistics I have been clocked twice at the Holes Bay traffic lights, both on occasions when the only injuries I could possibly have caused were to low flying seagulls."

"As I have zero points on my license and still have an 'old' fashioned driving license with no photo I am surprised after all this time to be prosecuted for speeding. My car is a very slow Peugeot 1007 and I drive for fuel economy rather than speed and I always try to drive within the speed limit."

"I have just been caught by the new stealth camera on the Holes Bay road.  I had no idea that I had broken the speed limit until the Notice Of  Intended Prosecution came through the door.This is just another stealth tax and has absolutely nothing to do with safety"

"Just been caught out on this one, ‘speed’ on green.  I have read your website and agree it is a perfectly safe junction so can only assume the 30mph limit is to increase revenues."

"The real reason for the speed on green camera here is the 3000+ motorbikes that use the junction every tuesday night. It's a license to print money. I agree that these cameras need to be stopped"

"I think that this is a case of money grabbing, not road safety."

"The DSCP is purely a money making organisation. They are not the slightest bit interested in road safety. If they were they would place speed cameras outside every school on a main road (like Bournemouth School for Girls on Castle Lane West for example.) All local motorists know where the cameras are and slow down and then speed up again. Useless. So the DSCP now have to resort to what I consider to be dirty tricks to screw the motorist: lowering speed limits on busy dual carriageways designed for higher speeds is one blatant ploy to catch more drivers due to the volume of traffic. (Wessex Way. 40mph? You're having a laugh!) Another is the "Speed on Green" cameras cited at junctions where there is a very small stretch of road from a higher speed limit down to 30mph (Holes Bay at Sterte Avenue).
It's no wonder the majority of motorists despise organisations like the DSCP. They are a money making scam. Nothing more, nothing less."

 

"The DSCP tell me they are not aware that 5% currently exceed 80mph on the Dorset Way. They get their stats from the council who have either not worked this out from their own data logger, or think this is acceptable. The DSCP have never been asked to enforce the Dorset Way.
With a ban on new fixed cameras, how does Poole council intend to enforce the new unrealistic and ridiculous 50mph limit when they failed to enforce the 70mph limit?
What a mess from a Tory controlled council, but to be expected with a bunch of old duffers and housewives in control."

 

"If you use the casualty figures from the council website http://boroughofpoole.com/go.php?structureID=U46406d2f2d56e&ref=S46C4255047ACA
 and plot them on a graph of rolling averages, you see that the trend for accidents is as follows:
Fatal: approx static since 1994
Serious: decrease from 1994 to 2001, thereafter upwards trend
Slight: downwards trend since 2003
The important point here is that the trend for KSI (killed & seriously injured) is up despite all the cameras and lower speed limits. The government target of a 40% reduction by 2010 has been missed. In fact the trend was falling until the formation of the DSCP in 2002 after which then trend is increasing.
We need intelligent human beings using common sense to spot bad drivers and retrain them appropriately, not a network of machines simply extracting money.
We also need a council committed to seeting speed limits according to DfT guidelines that are realistic and enforceable."

"I gone caught southbound at junction with sterte road 4 weeks ago - the speed on green camera. 37mph at 5.30 in the morning on a deserted road. £70 for a 3 hour driver training course is a bit rich but better than the £60 fine and 3 points. Cant believe I didnt see it...i had heard about it some months before. Pure money making excersise surely."

"Speeding is illegal, I have no argument there, but this set up in Poole feels like it’s there to raise cash rather than slow people down or catch criminals."